Title: Jeff Phillips Names Resource Stocks He Likes Across Copper, Silver, Uranium & Royalties Show: Natural Resource Stocks (host Steve Yang) Guest: Jeff Phillips — private investor / consultant to junior resource companies (large shareholder + paid consultant in several names discussed — disclosed on tape) Date: 2026-08-28 (published; recorded the day of Warsh's Jackson Hole speech — "gold's down about 110 bucks an ounce" "today") URL: https://youtu.be/paySvfiKcFo Length: 26:10 Note: YouTube auto-captions. Fillers (um/uh/"you know"/stutters/false starts) removed; wording otherwise verbatim — no paraphrase, no reordering. Auto-caption name garbles are LEFT IN THE BODY and mapped here (only "Jeeoff" → "Jeff" was normalized). VERIFIED mappings: "Kevin Worsh" = Kevin Warsh; "Black Rockck / Black Rocks" = BlackRock; "White Horse" = Whitehorse (Yukon); "Cali Park" = Cowley Park; "Hud Bay" = Hudbay Minerals (TSX/NYSE: HBM); "Arizona Sonora" = Arizona Sonoran Copper Company (formerly TSX: ASCU — Cactus project; Hudbay acquisition completed 2026-JUN-24, ~US$1.48-1.5B); "Aldderon" = Alderon Iron Ore (former TSX: ADV, no longer listed); "Greenlight Medals / Green Light" = GreenLight Metals (TSXV: GRL / OTCQB: GRLMF), CEO Matt Filgate; "Mark Ble" = Marc Blythe (Banyan Gold chair since Aug 2024; President & CEO of Au Gold Corp, TSXV: AUGC — Havelock gold-antimony project, Victoria, Australia); "Dora Gold / Door / Dora's" = Daura Gold Corp (TSXV: DGC / OTCQB: DGCOF), CEO Mark Sumner; "Sero Bio" = Cerro Bayo (Santa Cruz, Argentina — optioned from Latin Metals, TSXV: LMS); "Highlander's Bonita" = Highlander Silver's Bonita zone, San Luis project, Ancash, Peru; "Abra Silver" = AbraSilver Resource Corp (TSX: ABRA / OTCQX: ABBRF); "Kingsman Resources / King" = Kingsmen Resources Ltd (TSXV: KNG / OTCQB: KNGRF) — Las Coloradas, Parral district, Chihuahua, Mexico; the "saddle target" = the Saddle target on the Claudia 2 claim; "Alexandra Wood Chiron" = Alexandra Woodyer Sherron, President & CEO, Empress Royalty (TSXV: EMPR / OTCQB: EMPYF); "David Rhodess" / "Endeavor Financial" = David Rhodes, Executive Chairman of Empress and Managing Director of Endeavour Financial; "Northshore Uranium" = North Shore Uranium Ltd (TSXV: NSU / OTCQB: NSURF) — Rio Puerco project, Grants district, New Mexico; "Ker McGee" = Kerr-McGee; "Brooke" = Brooke Clements, President & CEO of North Shore; "Blake Steel" = Blake Steele (North Shore director); "the Zara uranium" = Azarga Uranium (Dewey Burdock ISR; acquired by enCore Energy, NASDAQ/TSXV: EU); "Jim Dyn the Dyn Letter" = James Dines, The Dines Letter; "Brian London's gold newsletter" = Brien Lundin, Gold Newsletter; "Bravo Mining" = Bravo Mining (TSXV: BRVO / OTCQX: BRVMF); "Patriot Battery Metals" = Patriot Battery Metals (TSX: PMET); "Beaver Creek" = Beaver Creek Precious Metals Summit; "PDAC" = PDAC (Toronto, March); "Geomorphic.ai" = as spoken (Phillips' private AI prospect-generation company). UNVERIFIED / left as spoken: "Freeriellandeland" (Brooke Clements' prior employer — probably Freeport-McMoRan, NOT confirmed); "draw results" = drill results; "gamecher" = game changer; "narrow wits" = narrow widths; "hill holes" = drill holes; "fast 41" = FAST-41 US federal permitting fast-track. NEVER turn an unverified garble into a ticker.
00:00 So, you want to see what the people have done before, and again, you got to really do your due diligence there to make sure it's true. But, have they built and sold a company before? Some of my past companies that I financed at 20 $30 million market caps like Bravo Mining, Aldderon, Patriot Battery Metals, I financed at 16 cents, that went to $16.
00:19 You look at the management or the CEOs, they've built and sold companies before, junior companies. I like to see that. I also like to see that management owns a big piece of the company. The board management fully reporting. That means they don't just own 3% of the outstanding shares and have a bunch of options. They have 20 30 40 50%.
00:38 They're in it for the long haul. Then I also want to see when I say people who are your other shareholders. If I see Black Rocks coming in like in Bravo or much later than me or Gladiator, I know these guys aren't investing in this to, they're investing in it now past where I invested in it because they're looking for a billion dollar asset, >> multi-billion dollar assets.
01:06 Good day everybody. It's me, Steve Yang here, Natural Resource Stocks. I have with me Jeff Phillips. How are you, Jeff? >> I'm doing well, Steve. Thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. Jeff, I met you at the Rick Rule Symposium. I saw you running around with Andy, and we got to talk to different companies together, and I was fascinated by your wealth of knowledge, your connections with Rick, and just would love to get into some companies that I know that you invest in as well as some companies I'm interested in. But so we will get to
01:38 some picks that I are curious and curious about and kind of want to get your insights on that. But really curious first of all how do you know Rick and how did this symposium compare with the ones you've been in the past? >> Well the easier question there is that symposium was incredible obviously I thought it was a great I thought Rick's conferences are always great conferences. I don't miss them.
02:01 But this year was really really just knocked the ball out of the park that their team did a great job. Companies there were great investors were great. Just great connections. I can't think of a better conference. I always attend Rick's conferences and then I do the New Orleans investment conference which are more retail conference.
02:19 Brian London's gold newsletter. But first part of your question is how do I know Rick? When I came into this business in my 20s, mid20s to maybe a little older than that, I indirectly worked with Rick and got to learn a lot of stuff from Rick which is a priceless education. I was lucky enough when I came into the business that guys back then like Rick and Bob Bishop who used to write a great newsletter, Doug Casey who was a big player back then and still still a big player today and had some good mentors. Jim Dyn the Dyn
02:49 Letter I was very close to Mr. dines later on, not when I first came into the business. That was more in the 2008 2009 period, but some legends in the business in the hard assets and natural resources. So, I was able to learn a lot. So, Rick and I, like I said, I indirectly worked for Rick back then, but over the years, Rick and I have remained friends and we participate.
03:11 I bring him some deals and he often participates in deals I'm putting together. Jeff Rick Rule and I talked after the conference and he was telling me that in the next three to six months you might see a pretty big buying opportunity where maybe there's an expectation perhaps where gold and commodities might get cheaper.
03:32 What do you expect and where do you think we are in the cycle overall? >> Did you talk to Rick yesterday? >> No. What did he say yesterday? because today is a pretty good example because you had Kevin Worsh the Federal Reser whatever he is come out of Jackson Hole today and basically say that there's probably I think he mentioned interest rate hikes 10 times so gold's down about 110 bucks an ounce last time I checked so yeah I don't know what Rick was referring to in his interview I most of my interviews I say the same
03:58 thing that I think we're in a historic bull market for the resource sector super cycle but we also had a super cycle that was interrupted by the financial crisis in 20089 you had a great market from 03 to07 and then you had the financial crisis and gold had reached almost $1,000 an ounce at that point and it pulled back when the NASDAQ dropped more than 50% and the gold pulled back to 700 bucks because people need liquidity when you have when the air gets let out of the tires basically and we've had a
04:28 historic bull market so I don't know when that air gets let out and people realize there's been overspending and everything from private equity to AI to government debt. In the short term that's going to affect the resource market as people look for liquidity, but I suspect like after the financial crisis, we're going to reach record highs and we're going to see gold at prices that a lot of people didn't suspect.
04:53 But again, I think I don't know what Rick's referring to in the next 3 to 6 months. I don't have a crystal ball, but that's my take. So, >> Jeff, do you see parts of the market, natural resources, I know that Rick likes loves what people hate. Do you see things that are maybe a little bit undervalued or others that are overvalued? What do you like right now? And what do you think is getting maybe too much press? >> Well, a quick quick history of the last 12 months.
05:19 We had a pretty good market in the PDAC, which is March in Toronto of last year. >> Obviously a great market. Gold reached record highs. Silver crossed 100. Copper's moving. The resource stocks after Beaver Creek, which is coming up this September, after last September, the resource stocks started moving. As of PDAC, gold pulled back.
05:38 Copper didn't really pull back that much. And you saw sort of a market that was kind of dry into Rick's conference. Lot a lot of buying. People were a little sad. They like the the prior six months. So, now you're in, and I've said at Rick's conference, normally the summer doldrums end sometime in August. We saw that end.
05:56 And we've seen stocks moving back up, commodities moving up until just today, which again doesn't really, it's a short-term thing. I don't know what that means. It's a daily thing. But I think typically the fall, September, October, all the way through March is a better resource market.
06:13 But that doesn't mean if you have some huge financial crisis or announced war or whatever, that it can't change that. But I'm pretty bullish. But again, every company's different on what value you're looking for and where it's moved. But a lot of these companies have more cash. They've advanced their projects and they're still not trading at where they were in March.
06:32 So, there's some opportunity as long as you're patient and pick the right companies that can weather the short term, midterm. >> Jeff, I'm enthusiastic about the copper thesis. I don't know where you are specifically with copper, but could you give me some copper picks that you guys like? >> Yeah, I think copper, over time's going higher.
06:49 Again, I can't tell you the short-term moves. It's had a great run here. And the underlying fact is that we've underexplored for copper for the last 18 years. All the easy copper deposits have been mined. It's getting harder to find copper. It's deeper. It's more expensive to mine.
07:04 Copper prices are going higher over time. It goes into everything, and a lot of the narrative lately has been that AI, these buildouts for AI take tons of copper and so that's been good for copper, but copper is in everything. It's in so many different areas, whether it's the nuclear renaissance and car manufacturing, it's in everything.
07:26 So, I like copper for the long haul. So I think finding good assets to speculate on the copper space makes sense. So what was the second part of your question besides copper? >> Curious what can you tell me about Gladiator? >> Oh Gladiator Metals. That's a company again. I consult for Gladiator. I'm also a pretty large shareholder.
07:45 I financed that early on. I still own my shares even from their first financing. Gladiators developed their White Horse Copper. It's really a district. They have the Cali Park which was an old Hud Bay produced in several pits up there but Gladiator's main it's in in the Yukon and Gladiator's thesis going back three years ago and was that there's more than just this leftover Cali Park there's other areas that were drilled that were never followed up on this is a district and in the last two and a half
08:13 years they've really proven that I mean they're growing the Cali Park asset they've got Cub East now which looks like a new discovery and this is high-grade open pitable copper over 1% copper and if you go back through their news releases you're going to see that they're hitting almost every hole and there'll be a lot more that have a 50,000 meter drill program.
08:35 They're fully funded. The difference with Gladiator now it's advanced like some of my other companies in the past we can talk about later. They've gone from where I typically am effective and a good consultant good large shareholder and help them raise money to Gladiators probably got a $300 million market cap now.
08:53 about the 30 or so million dollar market cap when I got involved. But I still like Gladiator. I still own a majority of my stock because I think this is a tremendous discovery that can grow from a you just saw their last financing. Black Rockck was a lead order for like $25 million. Black Rockck's not investing in this to see if it can go up 100 million.
09:13 They're looking at this as a multi-billion dollar asset. So kind of like Arizona Sonora, which you probably remember. I was a shareholder in that company before it went public. it took a longer because copper wasn't doing as well during that time frame but they were bought out for I think $1.6 $6 billion by HUD bay.
09:28 I can't remember if it was $67 a share but they developed that copper asset and I see Gladiator doing the same thing. So all these stocks are risky obviously and you really should get this isn't financial advice but I think Gladiator's onto what could be a tremendous copper district and a economic copper that a major would be very interested in.
09:52 Do you have any intel from Greenlight Metals that you can give me? Just kind of what do you like about them and what kind of question marks do you have or just what do you know about them? >> I really like Matt Filgate, the guy who runs Greenlight Medals. I think he's a first class young gentleman that's running the show.
10:08 I have a history with Greenlight. Again, I do consult for Greenlight. I'm a large shareholder. A lot of companies I am, but Greenlight was a private the I was just a shareholder. when I consult for a company, I need to be a very large shareholder. Because I want to benefit my shares and see them raise capital.
10:26 I didn't intend to get involved with Greenlight in that way. Just I just became a shareholder. It was supposed to go public and it didn't. It went through a couple management teams. I really like the story because Wisconsin is of wasn't mining friendly for about 20 years. And about five, six years ago, they became mining friendly again.
10:42 And Rio Tinto used to have some producing mines there. There's a tremendous belt there. Greenlight's idea was we'll tie up all these old Rio Tinto and when people left 25 years ago and start exploring Wisconsin. So it took long a long time for them to go public. I ended up buying more shares because after they went public at the IPO the stock dropped in half because you had a bunch of people that had probably wanted to get in and thought it was going public and once it finally did they just wanted to sell their
11:10 shares. So, I ended up buying a lot more shares after they went public. And then I'd known Matt from another deal and Matt outlined the plan and again I said, "Your problem is, you're got some shareholders that are tired and going to have to get through that.
11:24 " But I agreed to help him and give him advice. So, I'm still a large shareholder. He's executed really well. They're you're going to have more draw results here probably in early September would be my guess. Probably a couple sets before Beaver Creek, which is a big conference. They've hit they're, they keep growing that asset.
11:39 It's copper and I can't remember the strategic metal that comes with it right now. But I really like Green Light. I think at these prices they're trading below where they raised $12 million without a warrant about a year ago. They've got cash in the bank. They don't need to raise money.
11:54 You don't have to worry about that. So Green Light with a I don't know it's probably a $24 million Canadian market cap. I think it's a very good speculation on copper in the United States which is a critical metal and then they just got fast 41 which means the US government's going to advance their they're on a fast track type thing.
12:15 So Greenlight's a very interesting company to do your due diligence on. >> I want to get some gold companies from you. I do like Banyan Gold. I am an investor there. What do you know about them? I know that they were at the Rick Rolly Symposium as well. Yeah, I'm not a I'm a small shareholder I think in Banyan Gold.
12:34 I know Tara Christie who runs that company. The chairman of the board is Mark Ble. Mark Ble I've known for 20 years. He's a first class mining engineer. He's also runs a company called AU Gold Corp, which I'm very excited about which will be drilling in October in in Australia. But on Banyan, I've watched Tara for the last, I don't know, four or five years, through the ups and downs of the markets and the things that happen when you're trying to develop an asset.
12:59 She's grown that asset at Banyan into a many multi-million ounce gold asset. She's now they're drawing off some high-grade and again, she works tirelessly and if you're looking at a company, it's a bigger market cap at this point. And I mean it's I think it's a half a billion dollar market cap if I'm not correct.
13:16 But again it's I can't remember the ounces 7 million 8 million ounces. It's definitely highly leveraged to gold. So you're going to get a huge pop there and it's a very real asset run by very real people. >> Dora Gold. What can you tell me about those guys? >> Dora Gold I there I am a large shareholder and a consultant.
13:35 That's Mark Sumner. Mark Sumner's just a great individual and that's what I try to invest in. People that I not only are good people, but also people I'd like to go on vacation with and hang out with on a social level. So, Mark's a great guy. Door is a really interesting kind. It's kind of like Greenlight.
13:52 I didn't really I was a large shareholder because a broker should put me in it and I'm never a big fan of when brokers do financings. They tend not to be in the interest of the companies and more in their interest. But I got to know Mark and I got to know the assets and he's had to go through some stock and that was early on but I think that's all out of the way now.
14:16 And he's got tremendous assets. He's got three assets that I really like and I won't be able to name them all but I'll tell you about him. He's got a asset in Argentina called Sero Bio that's joint ventur from Latin Metals. They drilled the first round of drilling I don't know I'm going to say beginning of the year.
14:34 And instead of just having g this was geologically successful, they had some pretty good high-grade hits. 700 plus grams a ton of silver over narrow wits. And this area of Argentina has some of the biggest mines in the world. So, they're going to be mounting another drill program on some of the targets that they had the hits on, but some new targets.
14:50 They didn't have permits here, and that's probably going to be next month. Even more exciting is they have two Peruvian projects, and again, these aren't just grassroots projects. Both have had drill holes on them before. One of those is right it surrounds Highlander's Bonita discovery which was a major high-grade discovery and led the company at that time to have a $400 or $500 million market cap.
15:10 Well it's those veins continue on to Dora's property and they've had drilling on that. I think they had a private company 15 years ago it had like 26 mters of four you have to get this exactly right but something like 26 m of 4 g of don of gold. They had gold in every hole. So those veins continue on.
15:28 They also have another project in Peru that the grades from surface from like 0 to 30 meters are running four I think one was four grams a ton one is six. It hasn't been drilled in 15 years. So those Peru permits come in next year. I think those are tremendous opportunities. So they have three three projects that are just the Argentina will get drilled this year.
15:47 It's very speculative. It's got a 20 mill 22 million Canadian market cap. But again, I could even see, I'd like to see them continue to advance two of those projects and possibly spend out one of them into a separate company to raise money. And because again, these are all tremendous projects that need to have some focus on them.
16:07 So, I think Dora Gold's a great speculation going into the good time of the year, fall, and into PDAC. >> Do you have any silver picks you like? >> Silver picks? Silver's a tough one because when you say silver picks, there's a lot less silver companies that are fully focused just on silver.
16:25 I only have one company that I'm a large shareholder in. I like Abra Silver and I can't think of the other one that I own a few shares and they're bigger market cap companies for me. They're still small. They're three to 500 million or whatever. Abra Silver, I think, is bigger than that. But I have a small company called Kingsman Resources.
16:42 And I think you guys are familiar with it. I think they're involved with you and Andy and >> Yeah. Yeah. So, Kingsman's an interesting deal because they've had some very high-grade narrow hits, whether that's economic as a mine yet, but it's a huge district, past producing in Mexico, in a good area.
17:02 And they've had some great drill holes. I think they've released three in this second phase drill program. They drilled about 20. So, you've got 17 more hill holes coming. They drilled the saddle target, which my geologists really like. that could be a gamecher. But what's neat about Kingsman is it trades well it was trading lower.
17:19 It's I think it's gone up from a$110 to a$145 now Canadian. But they have about 14 $15 million Canadian cash in the bank and only 36 million shares out. So you're looking at a company with a 40 $50 million market cap but a lot of cash. They're not raising money anytime soon. They've got plenty of drilling. So there, from a speculative point that's what I look for. And the share structure is great.
17:41 You're not going to find many companies with 15 million in the bank and 36 38 million shares out. So, King is definitely worth doing some research. You're going to see lots of drill holes coming out in September and October. >> Any uranium or I like tungsten. I don't know if how big you are on tungsten, but what else have we not talked about that you I would like to ask you about royalty companies as well, but any love for tungsty we'll talk about those other two questions. So on the royalty
18:08 front, obviously if you interview Rick a lot, you'll hear Rick talk about two of the models that have made him the most money in the natural resource sector. Yeah. Are the royalty and streaming model those types of companies and also the prospect generator model. And he often does interviews on those.
18:24 So on the royalty front again I only own I mean when I say I only own I have retirement accounts that own some of the bigger like Franco Neadas and Wheatens or whatever it's called now. But the smaller company I have that I've been impressed with I actually came into the financing about four years ago when Rick did it and he did most of it himself is a company called Empress Royalty >> run by Alexandra Wood Chiron.
18:49 She comes from a mining family that built several of the big royalty companies. She's been in that industry Rick often says since she was 15 or 14 years old which is probably true. She's a just a great human being. She built this company from scratch. She started about 5 years ago. It's cash flow positive.
19:11 I liken it to that she executed the first chapter and she's on the second chapter now. So the first chapter was becoming cash flow positive and they have four main assets that actually are producing that cash and again they're sitting on a lot of money that they haven't had before. Their opportunity now is to cut some more deals.
19:30 some of those deals will be the same that bring in cash now for cash going out, but she's also branched out into doing a little further out royalty deals where they're not cash flow positive, but it gives you things over the next 2 to 10 years. So, I think she's going to execute now that she's in a place where her cost of capital is going to be less.
19:50 I think we'll see Alex and her team. David Rhodess is the chairman of the board. That's Endeavor Financial, and that's really what makes Empress different. Endeavor Financial raises billions of dollars to build mines. So they see deals around the world. So that team is scouring the smaller streaming and royalty deals for Empress. So it gives them a competitive advantage over other royalty companies.
20:09 So but again, I'm not saying the company's I've watched the company. They execute. They've created value undervalued. I still think they are somewhat undervalued, but not as much as they were three years ago. But you wait and see. I bet you they execute on a number of deals and they've done it before.
20:26 And I think Empress is a great exposure at the early side of the royalty curve. Your other question was tungsten and uranium. >> Yeah, tungsten uranium or any other thing we haven't talked about. I mean any other even Yeah, >> we can go on forever for all the things we haven't talked about. But yeah, I don't have any I'm fascinated by tungsten.
20:46 I just had one of my companies do a whole white paper on Tungsten, which I'll send you later. That's my I have a private AI company called Geomorphic.ai. which is doing a lot of service work and also generating prospects of our own around the world using artificial intelligence and combing other databases.
21:03 They also produce white papers. So there'll be one on uranium since you asked about that. I think there's one on phosphate there. So you can go to that website and also on what the US government's doing with critical metals there. It's free. But tungsten is very interesting and I've asked those guys to produce a report for me on tungsten and I'm looking at several assets that we may stake here in the states that are tungsten assets.
21:26 One in is it W? Yeah, Wyoming. So yeah, I like tungsten, but I don't have any exposure to it, but it's a critical metal and I think the US government is going to want to secure a supply here in the States. As far as uranium goes, same thing. we, I forget, I think we produce 2% of the uranium we actually use in our energy needs here in the United States.
21:45 So, and we get something like 22% of our electricity from nuclear energy and we only produce 2% of the uranium that goes into that. So, and we're dependent on companies like our countries like Russia, Kazakhstan, and I can't remember the country in Africa, but again, not always friendly. Canada.
22:05 Well, Canada was our friendly country. We may be in trouble. I don't know what we're doing there, but we get a lot of uranium from Canada. So, hopefully they'll put a 100% tariff on it. But yeah, uranium, and again, I've done well in the last 25, 30 years in different uranium cycles. So, and I think we're heading into a pretty good one.
22:25 I only have one small uranium company that I'm a shareholder in called Northshore Uranium, which has a historic asset in New Mexico that they just finished drilling. They should have drill results out, but again, that was drilled by Ker McGee. They're actually going to put that into production in the 70s when uranium was a lot lower.
22:43 So, and the person that's on the board there that's a good friend of mine, Blake Steel. Brooke runs the company and he's a very accomplished geologist ex Freeriellandeland but Blake ran a company for me called or not for me I was a large shareholder in a company called the Zara uranium where he put the Dewey Berdick ISR on track to be permitted and he was able to sell the whole company to Encore one of my big wins. So I have a lot of time for Blake.
23:04 So I think Northshore probably has a market cap of 145 million Canadian with a 11 million pound historic resource. Again, all these things are high risk and again, this isn't investment advice. Cons, do your due diligence. I'm biased. I'm a big shareholder.
23:21 Some of these companies I consult for, I've said, but Northshore Uranium is an interesting US-based early stage uranium company. >> Well, Jeff, you gave us some thoughts. Do you have any other picks that we haven't discussed that at least intrigue you that maybe you are invested or you're not invested in that we haven't discussed that maybe is worth looking into? I'm looking at a lot of stuff right now and that's a lot of stuff to do due diligence on.
23:44 Again, I encourage your listeners if they don't know the junior resource space. It's high risk. It's educated speculating. You really need to consult someone. It should be a small piece of your financial pie that you're trying to get massive outside returns on.
24:01 It's not the whole pie, your financial, your life. So and again if you're not willing to put the work in and do the due diligence don't listen to someone like me or anyone else for that matter and the other side is that what you really and if you are in the junior resource space the most important thing and I we talk about other companies but we'll do that another time is that I'm really big on share structure and people so you want to see what the people have done before and again you got to really do your due
24:27 diligence there to make sure it's true but have they built and sold a company before some of my past companies that I financed at 20 $30 million market caps like Bravo Mining, Aldderon, Patriot Battery Metals, I financed at 16 cents, it went to $16. You look at the management or the CEOs, they've built and sold companies before, junior companies. I like to see that.
24:48 I also like to see that management owns a big piece of the company, the board management fully reporting. That means they don't just own 3% of the outstanding shares and have a bunch of options. They have 20, 30, 40, 50%. They're in it for the long haul. Then I also want to see when I say people who are your other shareholders, if I see Black Rocks coming in like in Bravo or much later than me or Gladiator, I know these guys aren't investing in this to, they're investing in it now past where I
25:14 invested in it because they're looking for a billion dollar asset, >> multi-billion dollar asset. So, but even on the earlier stage, I want to know that there's other like-minded shareholders like myself that I recognize that aren't just playing the stock for warrants or to make double their money from 20 cents to 40 cents.
25:32 They tend to have a longer term horizon and need to make a bigger hit to make a difference in their lives. And so, people are real important and again share structure, it's who owns your shares, not just how many shares are outstanding. How much does management own? And anyway, that's what I concentrate on. >> Awesome.
25:48 Well, Jeff, thank you for the tips. appreciate your insights and your time and I'm glad Andy introduced us and look forward to kind of see how things unfold here from here. >> Well, we'll see and I enjoyed being on your show and come back anytime.