Title: Where Is The Bottom For Gold & Silver? | Andy Schectman Show: Thoughtful Money (host Adam Taggart) Guest: Andy Schectman (CEO, Miles Franklin) Date: 2026-JUN-24 URL: https://youtu.be/UnMbZ58hqs8 Length: ~1:02:30 Note: fillers (um/uh/you know) removed and stutters collapsed; wording otherwise verbatim. Timestamps preserved.
00:01 And we should be live. Welcome to Thoughtful Money. I'm Thoughtful Money founder and your host, Adam Taggart, and we're here for one of our regular check-ins on precious metals, all things gold and silver related, with a great precious metals expert, Andy Schectman, CEO of Miles Franklin, and the endorsed precious metals solution by Thoughtful Money.
00:22 Andy, how are you, my friend? I'm hanging in there, Adam. How are you doing, brother? I'm good, although it sounds like you're running the gauntlet today and that this is just one interview of many in a long string for you.
00:36 So we will get you out of here a minute or two before the end of the hour. I appreciate you making time for our audience. Yeah, no, I'd rather stay here longer if you want to know the truth, but I got a little bit double booked today. You're always welcome, everybody. Lots going on, man.
00:52 It's the gold market is absurd these days, the reaction to supposedly the Fed not being able to lower interest rates. So that's what they maybe want us to believe is kind of absurd. But there's a lot betraying that narrative. But happy to be here and chat about it. Well, thanks. And so I want to start there with you. I've got one update I want to slip in beforehand. But I've had this theory that we've talked about. I've talked about it with a number of people who sort of felt like it was a pretty good theory, which was that with high oil prices, a lot of countries were forced to kind of sell the family silver literally to pay for those higher oil prices but that once the boot came off the neck of the oil prices the boot would come
01:33 off the neck of the precious metals prices which were being sold to afford that higher oil but kind of right as that started to happen then we had Kevin Warsh come in and basically deliver the Mario Draghi like I'm going to do whatever it takes to make sure that inflation gets down to our target.
01:51 And somehow that kept the boot on the neck of the precious metals and they've come down even further. And the day we're talking here, I'll put up a chart in just a moment, folks. But gold and silver futures continue to fall. Silver is now trading below sixty dollars, so the silver futures at least, and gold futures briefly dropped below four thousand. I think there may be back up a little bit as at the time of this recording. Real quick though, before we get into all
02:18 that, I just want to check in because it took me way too long in our last recording, Andy, to get this up on the screen. You have been very generous in offering a junk silver offer to the thoughtful money audience. Last time you were keeping it at the two dollars below spot price which you said is sort of unprecedented in your career.
02:45 We've always been saying this will last as long as supplies last. So where are we on supplies and has anything changed with the pricing? Yes, it has. The supplies are still decent. I am going to, before the end of this, I'm going to get you a current price. It is up a little bit, not a lot. Give me a few minutes. I'll get you the current price on that for the rest of the week.
03:11 But yes, it's been a very, it's been a good special, people have loaded up on it. It's becoming a little harder to get right now, but I'll be back to you before the end of the podcast here with the current price. Okay, great.
03:25 And real quick, you'll get back to me with the current price, will it still be at some discount to the spot? Yes it will be 100%. So folks, we'll get more details later on as we go into this discussion, but again if you want to buy junk silver below spot from Miles Franklin, go to thoughtfulmoney.com slash buy gold.
03:46 And we'll be able to tell you exactly how much below spot in just a little while. All right, Andy. So you can start wherever you want. But I have to name these things before the live stream starts. And I think this is the question. I named it the question, I think, which is on everybody's mind, which is, where is the bottom for gold and silver here? Now, I know you're in the industry and some people are going to say, look, Andy's just going to talk his book and he's always going to tell us that the price is always going
04:13 to go up tomorrow. But what is your latest thinking on this price action? And if you think it's going to be transitory, this dip lower, what's giving you optimism that it will? Well, I don't know where it stops. I'm surprised it's gone this far, to be honest with you.
04:52 The transitory hope, if you will, the act of it being transitory in its decline or in its time lag is to me identified by seeing, as I've said on your show for a very long time, the deliveries. The January to deliveries so far in 2026 in silver is almost 34,000 contracts of silver. That's about 170 million ounces of silver have been physically delivered so far this year on COMEX.
05:27 And when you talk about the amount of historical deliveries, 2023, there was just over 23,000 contracts delivered in the entire year. We've already delivered in the first six months, almost 34,000. The amount of deliveries is 45% plus above the entire full year in five months. And so to me, when you talk about price misdirecting, it works for sure. February in gold, the biggest month of the year at over 4 million ounces delivered in gold off the exchange as the price has been getting kneecapped.
06:07 The January to May total comes in at about 99,000 contracts. 9.9 million ounces of gold have been delivered, roughly $45 billion have been delivered in five months. This is ridiculous in terms of the amount of deliveries. We've seen roughly somewhere in the neighborhood of $12, $13 billion worth of gold delivered here in the month of June already.
06:38 Sorry to interrupt, Andy, but is it accurate to say that deliveries so far in 2026 have been the highest ever off of COMEX? I believe they are the highest ever. Yes, that's a good question. I should double check that. But I do believe they are the highest ever. Let me put it to you this way. They're way outside the realm of what is normal.
07:00 But it's also important to note that deliveries don't automatically drain the vaults or determine price. But when records amounts of gold and silver repeatedly stand for delivery, physical metal is being valued differently than a simple futures contract. And the delivery isn't the story. The desire to take ownership is.
07:20 And normally it was just give me paper warrants, that's good enough. That's not the case anymore. People are saying no no no no, I want the numbered bars in my vault thank you so very much. And I think this is a very very very very big deal. You're seeing the same thing all around the world, too. You've seen the same thing happen in China as well.
07:48 And China is taking record deliveries of gold and silver and have been all year long quietly as the price is being kneecapped. And I think that's the most important thing for people to understand is that price is just misdirecting. As far as I'm concerned, it's greatly misdirecting because the people that are standing for delivery know the playbook.
08:10 They know where this is all going. And it just seems very obvious to me based on these deliveries. So when you talk about could it be transitory, yeah, either that or the people who at these levels, they don't mess around. And then you could talk about misinformation. Let's talk about that for one second, because the central banks told the world that they bought 15 tons of gold last quarter.
08:36 But the World Gold Council just came out and said, well, man, there's something wrong about that, because the actual metal through the refineries says the real number is 244 tons, or 15 times the official number. And the key point of all of that is they bought the crash. They've been buying as the price has been going down.
08:53 So when Western investors saw gold fall, they watched the dollar surge, they hear everyone talking about inflation, the Fed isn't going to raise or cut rates, the central banks did the opposite. At the same time, those central banks have been buying over 1,000 tons a year. Say 45% of those central banks expect to add to their reserves this year.
09:20 90% expect central bank holdings to rise, period. And 74% expect the dollar share of reserves to fall. So this isn't confusion. This is positioning. And I just think the media is watching the wrong markets. Thousand tons a year for four straight years by the central banks. These people, they don't mess around. So price is a tool of misdirection. It's very difficult to hang on.
09:46 I get it. But I will tell you that if I didn't see these deliveries the way that we are where nobody ever stood for delivery, it just tells me that this crash didn't break the gold thesis, it exposes who understands it. Weak hands are selling, and they're selling price, and strong hands are buying control at subsidized prices. And that's the whole point.
10:12 In a world where ownership of dollars and bonds no longer guarantees control, it seems to me gold is the only asset where ownership still means ownership. And that's why you're seeing all of the repatriation by banks like France. We'll forego the convenience of the New York Fed and the COMEX. Please ship us back our gold.
10:32 And so these kinds of moves, you wouldn't see if we were moving on from gold and silver. In fact, I think it's more along the lines of shaking out all the weak hands and the speculators and repositioning into very strong hands. And if someone were to tell me, now there's a fine line between conspiracy and reality. I don't know if I'd get up on Rick's stage and say this.
10:51 Maybe I will. I don't know. I might. But if someone were to say to me, because it's kind of what I'm thinking, truth be told, that the U.S. government was quietly involved in suppressing the paper price to stand for copious amounts of delivery through entities, maybe even like Tether as a proxy accumulator for them.
11:14 Would I believe it? Yeah, I would. I would believe it. Have no proof of that. But price and delivery are betraying one another. So if price were indication, then why are these people, who stood for delivery for almost $13 billion in gold so far in June? $13 billion. No, I want the bars, please, the numbered bars in my vault right away.
11:41 Thank you. Not the paper promises. Who's doing that every single month. And sometimes you just need to take a step back, strip away the emotion and say, yeah, that is interesting, isn't it? But as we've talked about many of your past recent appearances, who can handle that volume? It's hard for your brain not to go quite quickly to actual sovereign players. That's right. Very few people, but sovereigns.
12:10 So Andy, I'm going to get, if I can, to some of the user comments here. I've got some comments beforehand though, but I just want to show you that there's definitely the sentiment's getting pretty negative, right? I think it's going to be rocky for a while. Who's to say we have to go back up at all, we could be waiting for a while. I'm long silver and gold and oil, but man today's a bloodbath. Honestly, I'm honestly sick of it all. So look, I'm sure that person and a lot of people are, I'm kind of sick of it all too. I'm going to say I'm sure you hear this all day long. It's mad. And counterintuitive pricing is exactly how they play the emotions. This is why there's an entire school
12:50 of investment theory called wave theory, Kondratiev and Elliott wave that speak to the human emotions, the cumulative emotions of the herd. I don't blame that person. I've had other people say, I'm out. I just can't do it anymore regardless of the logic behind it. I understand that it's exhausting mentally it is. But again, if it were that bad, who's standing for delivery for 13 billion in the month of June, who's been standing for billions every month? Maybe this is part of the way that they reposition and everyone can't come along for the ride in a market as small as
13:22 this and as large as the dollar. And these are high stake games. The people that often focus too much on it are the ones that are hoping to get wealthy off it. Maybe you buy it and you put it away and you hope to give it to your kids. And you're damn glad if you need it for an opportunity or emergency someday.
13:39 But if not, you can pretty much guarantee that long after the money in your wallet is hanging from a frame in the Smithsonian, as what used to be called money, gold and silver will still have a role in the monetary system and it's expanding across the globe. And the deliveries by the biggest, most well-informed money on the planet is showing you that.
13:56 But to everyone's point who says that, I'm with you. I get it. It's maddening. Imagine what it's like getting up in the shower this morning thinking, oh, my God, I got six podcasts today, and I got to talk to people about this. And even though I believe it in my soul, I feel the same, like, come on already, man.
14:15 It's exhausting. But it doesn't deter how I truly feel, it only makes you really trust your gut and read that much more and study that much more. I don't get a minute in my own mind because I'm constantly trying to break down my theory and you look at a world awash in debt, inflation going higher, energy prices not getting any better, and the world hasn't gotten any better.
14:45 It's still as crazy as it ever was, maybe more so. The thesis hasn't changed. The price has, but the deliveries say, ah, but there's something behind that. So I get it for what it's worth. All right. Well, I appreciate you tackling that directly. But remember you said something to me once, Adam, and you said, will you tell me and my listeners when you think it's time to go? And as God is my witness, hand of the Bible, it is not time.
15:12 This is why so few people get successful in investing. You sit down and have a beer with Rick Rule once, and he will tell you that one of the trades that made him more money than anything was when he looked at it and analyzed it and this is the stock this is the sector and it got cut in half and he doubled down and everyone thought he was crazy and it made him very wealthy when it went back up. I'm not saying you're buying this to become wealthy. I'm simply saying that the thesis can be sound and the price
15:42 cannot cooperate for various reasons, whatever they are, but the thesis is still sound. And I think this is the case here. It's still very much sound. All right. So let me ask you this question then.
15:57 I think a question I've asked you a couple of times in the past is how will we know that this isn't like the previous vertical tops, the corrections after the previous vertical tops we've seen in precious metals, 2012, 1980? Because those went vertical, and then they corrected, and then they basically gave up all their gains and kind of became dead money for a long time. And so if you're looking at the current price of silver here, you're starting to get a little bit worried where you're like okay this thing looks like it's still continuing to break down towards the downside
16:34 here. Now you've said hey look, I don't think it's going to be a repeat of that. The question I have for you, Andy, is after the 2012 spikes and the 1980 spikes, what was happening with deliveries? So in other words, is the high volume of deliveries we're seeing right now, is that a different factor versus the two previous corrections? Yeah, it is.
17:06 1980, what brought gold down? Paul Volcker raised interest rates to eighteen and three quarters, right? Just an all-out war on inflation. What happened to the stock market, the bond market, the real estate market, the banks holding treasuries, the insurance companies holding treasuries, the pension funds? That's that great reset that Klaus Schwab talked about.
17:27 You can't raise rates that high. The entire system is over leveraged and got over leveraged because of suppression of interest rates over the last 30 years that destroyed price discovery. That ain't going to happen. But deliveries for my entire career have averaged less than 1% of contracts issued.
17:48 They weren't delivered. It's an anomaly for things to get delivered. In 2011, after the market peaked, yes, we still had issues. We were, I guess, in Afghanistan or Iraq and there were issues, but the United States was not looked at the way that it has been recently. There wasn't this massive amount of mistrust or distrust that has permeated through the world through things like confiscation or sanctioning of Russian treasuries, kicking them out of the SWIFT.
18:29 At the same time, we've been in Iraq for 23 years, and we went there for the wrong reasons, and we destroyed their country. No repercussions on us. We're still there. No repercussions on us. The world says that's not cool. And this is why you're seeing countries not only, and I think de-dollarize is the wrong word.
18:49 And Brent Johnson's a very smart guy. You're seeing a rush to dollars. Now people need it in order to pay off debts and do these things. Doesn't mean they want it. They need it. Right. Treasurization is a better word. And they have to get it. If they want to pay that debt off, they have to get dollars.
19:03 That's one of the reasons why Brent's so confident, right? Yes, and he's a smart guy. And I think Brent would tell you that at some point, the dollar milkshake theory runs its course, and you end up finding an alternative. But what they are doing is building the alternative, the CIPS network, the Cross Interbank Payment System.
19:21 mBridge just rolled out last week. We've talked about that for almost a year and a half now, two years. All of this stuff is happening at the same time. You're seeing all these exchanges pop up. We just saw the one in Dubai open up or start issuing immediate delivery contracts on Monday of this week.
19:41 We saw Singapore issue new immediately deliverable contracts in one kilo gold, 1,000 ounce silver. Hong Kong doing the same thing. All of these countries are issuing settlement systems related to precious metals and storage systems related to precious metals, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai, all over the place, all throughout the Belt Road Initiative, Mumbai, Brazil, they're all building the infrastructure, the arteries of the new system, slowly building it, and they're all accumulating gold.
20:20 So I think that this is a system that you're seeing gold being reintegrated into the monetary system and you're seeing people here stand for delivery at a level no one has ever seen before. So I guess what I'm simply saying is this is a very different time on many levels. Indebtedness, lack of trust, challenge to the system, infrastructure, all of the things that are being built to challenge the Western hegemony are happening very slowly. And the reason that a lot of people aren't able to stay with it
20:50 is because it takes so long, it's not immediate, and so it's easily dismissed. You look at what they're doing in the global south with the expansion of the Shanghai Exchange and all of these exchanges that are connecting to one another that will ride on top of the rails of the cross-center bank payment system and the mBridge where countries will use their own currency and settle trade imbalances in gold all throughout these exchanges.
21:19 And it's happening very quickly where the Western system will be challenged. And I think that's kind of what this is all about. So, okay. And we've talked about that a lot here on the program. So don't necessarily need to go into it in a ton of depth today, but there's sort of a BRICS rest of the world challenge to the dollar that's based on, in large part of the platforms that you just mentioned. And those are basically backed by gold.
21:46 Now, on the West side, this is something that, again, Brent Johnson has brought up, which is the next really major chapter in the story of the dominance of the dollar as the world global reserve currency, maybe stablecoins. And as you mentioned earlier, a lot of these the largest private stablecoin issuers, what are they doing with their profits? They're buying gold. They're buying gold.
22:15 And now the stablecoin kind of by definition is backed by a U.S. Treasury fund. But the fact that the issuer is amassing such a large stockpile of gold, you can kind of say the stablecoins are indirectly backed by gold. And why are they buying gold? Because the interest is not transferable. So they take the interest. Right, on the treasury.
22:38 Right. And they're buying gold with it. And what does that do? In reality, it devalues the dollar. That's the only way to devalue the dollar, Adam, because it's the only reserve, the neutral reserve asset that the whole world has agreed upon for 5,000 years is the one neutral asset by which everything else is measured.
22:56 You try to measure the dollar against the dollar index. Remember, Triffin's dilemma is that other countries will sell their currency in the open market to buy dollars, just like Brent is talking about, to buy oil and to transact business. They need to so the dollar goes higher relative to other currencies that are being sold to buy the dollar.
23:12 Not a good measuring stick. Measure it against gold, the one neutral parameter by which everything is measured. So, yeah, I mean, the point I'm trying to make here is there's your argument, which is that look all these other countries are trying to break free of the shackles of the dollar so they're buying gold to build that new system and what I'm saying is in the US in its next generation may be creating additional demand for gold as well through stablecoins.
23:47 So even though you've got this big competition going on, who's the beneficiary? Well, in the long run, it should be gold. Well, that's my entire thesis that I've talked about publicly is that's a big part of it. You use the movement of money, which anytime money moves from next January on, it's on stablecoins on a blockchain.
24:05 And the interest isn't transferable. So by taking that interest and buying gold, you devalue the dollar, make the debt easier to pay off, and also make manufacturing easier to sell. How do you bring back manufacturing? Well, this brings us to the Judy Shelton theory again. And if she's right, and they do back the long end of the bond market, which the Fed can't control, to gold, you have zero upfront borrowing costs, you owe the gold down the road, and by the time the bonds mature gold is massively higher without even having to revalue it by the Federal
24:36 Reserve, which they could do, or by the government, with the snap of the fingers he just tells the Treasury department to tell the Fed chair, this is what gold is. And it's an accounting gimmick. Maybe marking it to market is something they should do right away.
24:55 But letting gold move up, which would in essence be organically yet synthetically, because this entire demand for the front end of the curve through the genius act is synthetic, and transferring that interest into gold benefit. And the one part that I think there is a line of, is a conspiracy or a reality is, Bo Hines is in there now. Was there a wink, wink, nod, nod to Tether? Listen, you guys are no longer going to be investigated.
25:18 Here's what you're going to do. You're going to sell that gold that you continue to buy with the interest to the U.S. Treasury, quietly. So now you have a proxy bank or a proxy institution, a fintech company, running proxy for the US government to keep their name out of the open gold market, buying gold on behalf of the US government.
25:36 They have bought more gold for three years in a row than anyone in the world, with the exception of the Bank of Poland. So could it be? Sure. Why not? I don't know. I think misdirection, everything is not just right in front of your face. Okay. I want to pull up another user comment here. Again, this is more just venting, but I'm bringing it up.
26:01 I'm all right with the people have the right to vent. So Christine says I'm mad at myself for not selling my gold and silver back in January. So totally get that Christine and a lot of people are feeling that way especially the folks that jumped in for the first time back when things were going vertical. I just want to say this is why I, and I know Andy was doing the same thing at the time, was saying, look, this price action is getting crazy here. And while long-term we think prices will go even higher, this is the
26:34 time to either be taking some gains or to be putting on a hedge or two. And folks can remember, I was definitely advocating people start hedging their positions once silver got above $500. I will say that is true. You were doing that. And you were agreeing with me that, hey, this is probably smart if you've ridden, if your positions just tripled in the past five months.
26:58 And folks might remember, I had those sober laser eyes that I put on when silver was, I'm trying to remember, but I think it was like 28 or something like that. Might have been a couple bucks higher. But when it got to 100, I took those eyes off and I said, hey, folks, look, the getting's been way too good here.
27:18 I just can't in good conscience say that I still think Sober has an immediate, massive upside from here. I don't know where the top is but I know that it's getting really frothy here and I got a lot of criticism for that. Oh you're an apostate, this is the revaluation that we've all been expecting and so we're going to the moon. And so I just want to maybe give ourselves a little bit of a pat on the back, but really explain why we were taking that unpopular position back then. And I want to contrast that with now where, you know,
27:52 Andy, back then you were saying, look, I'm happy to still sell you this stuff. I think it's going to still go a lot higher in the long run, but you were agreeing it was getting quite frothy. What I'm hearing you say now is, yeah, I know it feels pretty terrible, folks, and the price could still go even lower from here.
28:10 But if I hear you correctly, you're saying, I don't think this game's up at all. I think this is a breather. And I think you're, you didn't say this, but I'm going to put these words in your mouth. I think you're getting a really good chance to buy the precious metals at a pretty darn good value at this point in time? Well, it's just, cost averaging for sure.
28:27 And the reason that maybe it doesn't resonate as much with me when prices are that high is that I don't, and I've always been clear. I tell people gold is wealth. You don't buy it to become wealthy. You own it because it is wealth. And so it's one of these things that you shouldn't be focusing on every single day. And the volatility is what has kept people out, yet it continues to march higher every single year.
28:52 So volatile, people don't even notice it's marching higher and outperforming traditional assets. You focus too much on it, you're hoping to get wealthy, you're owning it for the wrong reasons, and it's going to tug on your emotions.
29:10 So yeah, I own it because I know in the end, it's going to be much higher based upon a system that there is no way that the dollar can come back to a semblance of strength when we're 200 trillion in debt, when interest rates have nowhere to go but higher, when our populace is largely uneducated, 60% of the country with the literacy rate under the sixth grade where, indebtedness goes far beyond what is indebted by the government.
29:32 The people are massively in debt. Savings is at all time lows. These are things that are inescapable in my opinion, and ultimately pushes inflation higher, pushes the dollar lower, pushes gold higher, ultimately. And the big money repositioning, standing for delivery, using weakness to do so, betrays everything that you're feeling.
29:52 It does. And it's hard to pull back the emotions and say, yeah, that's true. I sympathize. I get it. I feel the same things. I mean, I've done this for 36 years. You can only imagine the multitude of emotions that I've dealt with. And my son works for me. I have to deal with his texts every morning.
30:11 He texts me this morning. First thing my son says to me this morning, he says, still don't understand how silver can be this manipulated. Well, it's true. And until it's not. And the deliveries are making it ultimately not. Not yet. But when all of the big money is saying we'll take physical bars, when the countries like France and Germany and the Dutch and the Czech National Bank, Poland, Hungary, Turkey, Austria, they all say, give us back our gold.
30:45 India, give us back our gold from the Bank of England and the New York Fed. It tells you where this is ultimately going. And I keep saying to people, it's the deliveries that will break it. Think about this for a moment. What broke, what caused Nixon to close the gold window? What broke the facade? Do you remember? I think it was countries like France saying, yeah, we're taking it back. Charles de Gaulle saying, I want delivery.
31:21 Pulled up warships to New York Harbor with dollar bills and he had the right to do so. Give me the gold. What broke Bernie Madoff? Delivery. What's going to break this? Delivery. And price is a tool of misdirection by those that are grasping at anything they can either to cover, to stand for delivery, or to mitigate their what is an existential threat.
31:42 Easy for me to say, not easy to hear, but I do believe it in my soul. Okay, so I've asked you this question in the past. I'm going to ask it to you again. And I don't know how much true visibility you have into this. But all right, so if it's about delivery, and that all makes sense to me, then do we have a measure of where inventory is in the system? And are there parts of the system where we can point to and say, all right, that's getting dangerously low, that if this volume continues for much longer, you're going to start having
32:16 failures of delivery because they just don't have product? Those kinds of metrics coming from the exchanges who you really can't even trust. David Jensen, as an example, will tell you that the free float on the LBMA is like 140 million ounces. But he questions if that free float is really even a free float.
32:40 He would say that maybe it's only more like 40 million ounces, as about 100 of the 140 is owned by the ETFs kinds of thing. You look at the COMEX, and there's 300, 400 contracts for every ounce out there. But they issue contracts these days. There's a bunch that issue with they won't let you stand for delivery and these kinds of things.
33:02 Let me put it to you this way. The numbers are far worse than we would really be led to believe. As an example, on COMEX, guys like Ed Steer will tell you the majority of the silver that is supposedly available, JP Morgan has earmarked for other things. I don't know the exact numbers and I should try and find those exact numbers, but I will simply tell you that if everyone stood for delivery, only a very, very, very small portion of those that tried to stand for delivery would receive the metal. And right. Just like a bank.
33:43 But if you are part of the group that is standing for delivery, you have to understand this. So you have to very, and this is what people have a hard time understanding. Why not just stand for delivery for everything? Because just like that, the exchange would force, measure, and blow up. So instead, it's death by a thousand paper cuts. And this is why for 18 straight months, we've seen billions and billions and billions and billions and billions and billions delivered.
34:06 Who in God's green earth has stood for delivery for 13 billion in gold in the month of June, and it's not over yet? Who? And why doesn't anyone say, who did that? But this is every month. $13 billion someone or someones spent on gold delivery when no one ever did that. Can I ask you a question on that? Sorry to interrupt.
34:27 Who would answer that question? Who could answer that question? And I guess that's COMEX. And I'd want to say, well, then does COMEX publish a list of clients? Probably not, or else you would know the answer. You can figure some of it out by using the loadout numbers or who posts the numbers, but you don't know who did it because it could be — let me ask you this question so you can include it in your answer —
35:06 is it protected by bank privacy laws like a client attorney privilege or is it something that could be gotten through a FOIA request? No, you can't get that information but they do publish something called the commitment of traders reports which shows the positioning of the largest traders and you can see like if JP Morgan what's called stopped or delivered x amount of contracts and the other bank was the one that was buying them or one was selling one was — you can figure it out by looking but you still don't know who the
35:42 customer was. As an example, like when Blythe Masters who ran JP Morgan was running their metals desk, she said we don't ever buy for ourselves. It's always for customers. The CME group in their documents will tell you they work with central banks. Who is the customer that JP Morgan was doing this for? We don't know. You can figure out it might be JP Morgan, but you won't know who they're doing it for, I guess is the issue. Okay. All right.
36:01 Andy, we're getting to the lightning round part here just because I still have a bunch of questions and we don't have a ton of time left. Can I just say one thing before we start? Of course you can. One of the things that I saw that I don't know if I've discussed with you that I find to be really interesting is, we've talked a lot about the Judy Shelton thing, right? And even if it doesn't happen July 4th, I still think it's a valid point. But there's something that I don't know
36:30 if you noticed that happened that again just makes you go, hmm. I think this is one of my questions I'm going to ask you, but go ahead with it. Paul Winfrey? No, we can talk about the U.S. Mint also. How about Paul Winfrey? Do you know who Paul Winfrey is? He is Kevin Warsh's first policy advisor, and he'll be his top policy advisor.
36:55 And he's a new Fed. He's the new top key policy advisor to the Fed. He used to work in the previous Trump White House as the deputy assistant for domestic policy. He's a Heritage Foundation scholar, blah, blah, blah. But he was one of the 20 or 30 economists that took a chapter in Project 2025.
37:18 It's a report that was all about mandate for leadership, whatever the hell that means. But his chapter, Chapter 24, was on the Federal Reserve. And guess what his chapter talked about? He seriously explores returning to or running a parallel gold standard to fight inflation and the boom and bust cycles that the Fed creates.
37:37 He highlights, of all things, gold convertible treasury instruments, aka gold bonds, as a practical transitional tool. Judy Shelton's idea. Yeah. I feel like we should call those bonds Sheltons. Yeah. We should call them Sheltons a hundred percent, but I find it really interesting that the first person that he hires is a guy that has written about in a report that we're all top economists on convertible gold bonds.
38:03 It just another thing like the gold coins that are being issued. They're issuing a one ounce gold Liberty Bell, a half ounce gold Liberty Bell, and a silver Liberty Bell. The silver Liberty Bell is 750 bucks or something. The half ounce is 10,000. The one ounce is 20,000. Now I have run Miles Franklin, started it since 1989. The U.S. Mint
38:28 has been around since 1986. I have never ever seen anything like this. Is that real? Do we know that it's real at this point? Yes, if you go to usmint.gov right now you will see it. Okay, I can send you the link right now. Okay, so let me just make sure folks aren't losing this. So the U.S. Mint put some commemorative coins up there for the country's 250th and can you —
38:53 I don't know if they're available now, if they're available after the — they're not available until — I'm going to send you a link right here. Okay, but they'll be available after July 4th or sometime like around that and they are trading at just bananas premiums to the current prices of spot and people are saying oh my goodness did the government basically just kind of reveal that there's going to be this big precious metals repricing for the country's 250th? And one of the questions I had
39:27 in my mind was, was this just a glitch and that these prices are going to come down, these weren't the right prices and they're going to come down? But you're saying that it's still there, you just sent me a link. So I'll pull it up here for folks. Yeah, and so I'll send you the other two also. These are on their website right now. Okay, and while he's doing that folks let me see if I can
40:09 share my screen with you. There, I sent you all three of them. Okay, so folks you can hopefully see this. This is the Liberty Bell one half ounce gold coin so one half ounce of gold right now should be about two thousand dollars but this is priced for ten thousand dollars for a half ounce. And then the one ounce, which is 20, and then the one
40:27 silver, they're all the same. If you look at the obverse, I think this will be $125 face, the one ounce is 250 face. Okay. But point being here is those prices are just ridiculous. Unlike anything I've ever seen by the US Mint. Could it be a faux pas? Did they mess that up? I don't know. It's been up there for a little bit now. Well, you think they would have rushed. Once the headlines started, do you think they would have rushed and changed the price?
41:04 So, can they really be believing that that can be justified by collectability value? I just got back from St. Bart's. I don't know if you've ever been there, but places have been a long long time ridiculous. I mean ridiculous like just stupid ridiculous and I was sitting there with a buddy of mine, I said how can they sell a bottle of this champagne for 700 when you buy it back in Florida for 65 bucks? It's just because they can and people will pay for it
41:35 I guess. It made zero sense to me. And the people are lining up on an island, you're a trapped audience. On the web, on the internet, you can just go to a — Miles Franklin can't do that on the usmint.com and they're only going to issue of course 2026 of these commemorative coins and they are coins because they have face value on them.
42:00 And so when you talk about, is there enough people out there with enough money to buy this and pay it? Probably. And the U.S. Mint might be the only division of the government that's actually profitable. I don't know if it's just government thinking, yeah, this will be, all the collectors will gobble it up.
42:24 Right, but you've never seen anything like this before. A new collector. Never, and I'll tell you one thing, here's what will happen. You'll get all the people that will try and buy them, certify them by PCGS and NGC, and then sell them on eBay for far more than that.
42:48 And do you think they'll go for that? Do you think it'll crash? Oh, yeah, I think they will. I mean, why not? If that's what the mint is saying they're worth. It's silly, but again, when you add all of this stuff together, like Paul Winfrey, like this, you start saying, hmm, it's strange.
43:07 I get it. I don't know that gold will be — I'm not in the camp that says they're going to revalue gold on July 4th. I think gold will go much higher. I think they should mark to market. But there are guys out there like James Rickards, who is a lot smarter than me, who he's been saying gold could go and be revalued as high as $24,000.
43:41 Right, right. We've seen all those different math exercises. Yeah. Okay. So, sorry, there's just tons and tons of questions getting asked here. Real quick, I just want to note for your interest, but also for the whole audience's too. So you're talking about Judy Shelton. So, Andy, I'm going to be doing a panel next month, or sorry, in early August with Judy, Lacy Hunt, and Tom Hoenig.
44:03 So got these three greats, all of whom have worked at the Federal Reserve or been considered for positions there, and Tom Hoenig's case sat in the FOMC. So if you're curious about all things Fed, we're going to have just an all-star panel for that. And that's going to be in early August, folks, and I'll give you greater updates on it as we get closer.
44:28 I still got a couple other rapid fire questions for you here, but in the spirit of what this guy asks: okay enough talking, let's get to predictions. I'm not going to force you to make a price call here Andy, but my question to you to the spirit of the title of this video is, where's the bottom, right? And nobody really knows. But
44:28 let me ask you this. What are prices at which you would say, I didn't think it was going to get that low, this just seems crazy? I think we're pretty close to there right now. I think you would have shook out all of the speculation at under 60 bucks in silver and all of the hopium. At the same time, I think breaking 4,000 in gold is the same thing. We're right there. All of the futures contracts, all of the options, they'll all
45:05 expire worthless. I would say we're right at that number right now. I'd be surprised to see it have that much more weakness, but who knows. I didn't think it would go this far to begin with. Okay. All right, but the area hit from the horse's mouth, folks, which is lots of reasons to think that we're maybe quite near a bottom here, but again we're going to have Andy on regularly, we'll keep commenting. We're at 75 cents back of spot on junk right now, by the way.
45:29 Sorry, 75. Yeah. 75 cents back of spot on dimes and quarters right now. Okay. So just to make sure I'm understanding correctly for the special offer, which was $2 below spot will now be 75 cents below? Yeah, and that would be on half dollars too. So half dollars to me are a better buy at 75 cents back a spot than the dimes and quarters are. Okay. And so folks again, this is why we've been mentioning this wonderful offer that Andy's been offering for so long is the ability to buy this low under spot.
46:06 He knew wasn't going to last forever. We're still under spot, which is good. But the price is starting to move here. So basically, the point is, if you want to buy junk silver under spot, you still can, but uncertain how much longer Andy's going to be able to be able to do this. If the silver market is starting to heal in the refiner section.
46:28 And Andy, it sounds like they're still backed up, but we know at some point they are going to get on top of this and these crazy discounts that you've been able to buy at are going to go away, right? Yeah, markets always work in the shape of a pendulum from too far one way through fair value to too far the other way, and it will swing back. That's how it always works. And it's been, I think the greatest value I've seen in silver in my career, I've never seen anything like this where two bucks back a spot for
46:57 four months. I've never seen anything like that. Okay. So again, we don't know what's going to happen with the future folks, but our expectations were that as the discount Andy was able to offer was getting lower and lower, that at some point it was going to bottom out and it was going to start going away.
47:14 We might be seeing that inflection point here right now. So again, nobody knows. But if indeed it goes the way we think, you might not have very long to continue to buy junk silver at below spot. And if you want to do it, go to thoughtfulmoney.com slash buy gold. I'm giving your listeners a lower price than we are currently marketing it for.
47:34 So I don't know how long it'll last, but we'll keep it going as long as we possibly can. All right. Well, Andy, thank you for doing that now. And again, thank you for doing it for months now to this opportunity. And obviously folks, if you want to do this, I'm sure it hasn't
47:51 been fun to watch the price of silver go down. But at some point here, it likely will bottom, as we're talking about. And the way to get that is to keep increasing your exposure. And Andy, I just want to remind you that I've been doing this on kind of an occasional basis but since developing our relationship I have taken your father's advice and every two weeks or every 15 days I am continuing to add to my physical precious metals position just through dollar cost averaging and that gives you kind of some
48:26 psychological comfort. As the prices are going down it stings because what you have is worth less but you've got this sense of okay but I'm getting a better and better deal on the new stuff that I'm buying and at some point in the future man am I going to be happy. There's also something that people like you should know especially those that have it in storage that the 30-day wash rule does not apply to commodities and only applies to securities so in theory you could take everything that you bought at higher prices, sell it, the metal
48:55 gets transferred to us, if you own it at home it has to get shipped back to us for roughly a two percent round trip, you can buy it or sell it and buy it back the exact same stuff. Book that loss against your capital gains, if you have any, or just carry it forward against regular income until you have a gain to offset it against rather and wash the gains.
49:20 And you can reset your basis? Huh? Do you reset your basis? No, you get a new basis. Yeah, you reset it. Okay, great. So you get to book the gains. And you can reset your basis? Do you reset your basis? No, you get a new basis. Yeah, you reset it. Okay, great. So you get to book the loss. You cannot do that with securities.
49:29 That's a violation of the 30-day wash rule. Yeah. That is fascinating, actually. And that's maybe something worth talking about in a little bit more detail, maybe in a future — Sure. It's called the precious metals tax swap. Same thing applies for cryptocurrencies too. Wow. Okay. So let's say you are a new precious metals investor and you went hog wild in January.
49:53 And now your silver is down 50%, your gold is down 20 plus percent or whatever. You can sell that, buy it right back, you can buy it right back, and you can book those losses so you can use those to offset capital gains. Yes. And here's an interesting thing, that little piece to it too: when you sell it, that's the documentation you provide to the IRS and to your accountant, I sold all my metal. No one ever says to you, Adam, what you do with the proceeds, none of your business. I don't have to report that. Those proceeds, the money, instead of writing out a check or sending a wire, we just apply
50:29 it to the exact same thing that now you send, we put back into your storage or send back to you. In essence, you just reacquired everything. You can send us a check for the 2% or we take it out and give you back 98% of the metal. But the point is, is that you never wrote out a check for what you just repurchased.
50:45 It's invisible legally. You could present it and show it if you had to. But as far as anyone else knows, you sold your metal, you don't own it anymore. And the proceeds just evaporated. Well, that metal you repurchased is now in your possession or in storage, paper trail free. Can I say, okay, let's say I've got, and I do have some metal with Miles Franklin. So let's say it's all sitting there in my Brinks vault. Yep.
51:10 Can I give you the sell order on minute one and then give you the buy order on minute two so that the stuff in my, for a minute, I don't own what's in my vault. And then again, I own it the next minute again, nothing's moved anywhere. Correct. The dust still lies on my gold bars. And what we actually do to make it a solid transaction is we instruct Brinks to move it physically.
51:26 And they move it. And they keep track of all of it so that we don't ever do anything half-assed. Okay, so they do move it. They move it, and then they move it back. And that is legal. It is a loophole, but it is legal. We have legal opinion on it because when the law was written, it only and specifically cites securities.
51:42 Precious metals are not a security. Commodities are not a security. You could sell a cow from one farmer to the next and then buy it back the next day. Said, I changed my mind. Can I buy it back? Sure. Commodities you can do that with. All right, super interesting. So folks, we'll talk more about this with Andy maybe next
52:00 time, but if you want to get more detail on this and I highly recommend you do just before you run out and rush to do this, feel free to talk to any team there at Miles Franklin to get all their details, talk to your financial advisor just to make sure that everybody agrees this is copacetic.
52:27 Maybe talk to your accountant as well. If you don't have a good financial advisor to talk to you about this, feel free to talk to one of the ones that Thoughtful Money endorses, and I'll tell you how to do that in just a sec. But really interesting. So this is basically, you're basically giving people kind of an idea to get some free money here, which is basically you still keep the precious metals, but you get to write off losses against your other capital gains.
52:48 As a taxpaying citizen, your obligation is to pay the least amount of taxes as humanly possible without doing anything illegal. This is legal. I'm not a financial advisor, but I'll tell you, I've done this for so long and had so many people do it, and they've all gone, done the same thing that you said, talk to your accountant which is always good to do, they all get the blessing. Yeah, I guess you're right, it's legal. So in doing so you do in essence get a free write-off that, I think because of
53:15 the proliferation of crypto, you'll see this loophole probably close sometime soon, but for now it's still open. Okay, super, super interesting. Okay, we've got just like three minutes left, Andy. I know I got to let you out of here. Two questions and give me your best 30 seconds on each. People here are worried that, okay, there's going to be an uncomfortably high odds of an AI sector crash happening, pulling the market down with it. If that were to happen, would that just be yet another down leg
53:53 for precious metals beyond what they've already fallen so far? Well, I think that's what we're supposed to believe, that they throw out the baby with the bathwater. To me, it's always been MOPE, management of perception economics, as Jim Sinclair used to say. In reality, how many of the people that are on margin with NVIDIA and Apple and SpaceX have a whole big position in gold that they have to sell in order to come up with margin liquidity? When the market collapsed in 2020, yes, gold sold off, but it came right back up.
54:32 Again, these are all, to me, managing reality, managing perception. So yes, maybe, but in the end, no. In the end, it always reverts back much higher. So it might be a sell-off when that happens. And I think there's a high probability stuff like that happens.
54:56 So you can't have the entire stratosphere of stock investors piled into 10 stocks without expecting some sort of an issue. When you see Warren Buffett still sitting on 400 billion in cash, that should tell you what he thinks about the value in the market. Okay. All right. And then Michael Oliver. So Michael Oliver has been, I haven't talked to him recently, but you have, has been forecasting that precious metals are going to have an amazing summer. If so, they better get going pretty quickly.
55:22 He's saying they'll hit their new all time highs kind of later in summer, like in the September timeframe, but he was talking like, to $300 over. Is he still — because I think you guys just did an interview with him on your channel this past week. And do you have the same optimism that he does in that short of a timeframe? I think the poor guy's getting destroyed.
55:44 He stopped doing anything social media until around Thanksgiving. He just came out and publicly said that. He's a man with great courage and conviction. He believes it's going to happen. And his reasoning is very sound. I think it's very dangerous to make predictions time-wise on anything.
56:07 And that's why, when I talk about the July 4th thing, I said, look, this is Judy Shelton's idea. I'm running with it. I don't know if it's going to happen. She's told me, she's told Adam, she's told Michelle, she's written a book on it. She keeps saying July 4th. Will it happen? Not my — I hope so, don't know. Yeah. And just, last time I talked to Judy, she said, I have no idea if the government's going to do anything around this. So I don't feel like she's saying this is absolutely going to happen.
56:28 She's just saying I've given them the plan and I certainly hope it does. Right. And again, and I would echo that and simply say, when you say something, no matter how rooted in logic, mathematics, economics and thoughtfulness it is, when you come out and say it's going to happen by summer, for sure, you can see between $300 and $500 an ounce. And I think it's dangerous.
56:55 But do I have the conviction? Not as much as he does. I think in terms of probabilities, and I think the probability that we see much higher prices is legitimate. But to see it even before this pullback, I think it's a lot to ask for.
57:11 Even at $100, to see it go up five-fold between now and then would be crazy. So I don't know. I respect Michael a lot, and I like him a lot, and he's a smart man, and I hope he's proven right because I think he's gotten so beaten up over it he's just backed away from all social. Yeah, I totally get that. And so I'm sort of in your camp, but if this guy's right Andy, we'll be the first ones to build a statue to him. So okay, so I got to let you go here, so
57:46 real quick folks, again if you want to take advantage of that discounted price on junk silver go to thoughtfulmoney.com slash buy gold, fill out the form there, but really you can fill out that form to talk to any of this team about anything, any questions you have around the precious metals in general, around buying them, around selling them, around storing them, go there, fill out the very short form, it'll take you all of 10 seconds and Andy's team will be right in here. If you need to speak to me make sure you make that very clear. Pardon me, I said if someone really needs to speak to me make it very clear and that you're very kind. Well and they'll
58:15 pass it to me. And as you can see folks, Andy, I continue to get such glowing praise about just how well treated people are by you and your staff. And of course, you just offering people to pull you in by name if they want, just underscores that the customer service that your team offers is just top notch.
58:37 I really appreciate that. And I have so many cool things happening that I want to share with your audience that I'm so close to being able to share amazing things. I hope you can share some of them with me when I see you in Florida. When I have dinner with you, you have my promise I will.
59:01 But in the meantime, I appreciate coming on your show. I will never hide, especially when things aren't going the way that we would like them to go. And when it's time to maybe move on, I will be there telling you my beliefs are it's time to move on. We're not there yet. We're not even close. But thanks for your candor and allowing me to express my views.
59:22 And I'll look forward to picking up where we left off and really look forward to seeing you next week here in Florida. Yeah. It's coming up fast. Well, I can't wait to see you, buddy. Andy, I'm going to let you hop, but folks, please, those on the live chat, give Andy your thanks. We'll keep doing this or as much as you guys want us to.
59:39 And it seems like from all the feedback so far, folks want this train to continue. If you're watching the replay, let us know in the comment section below. We'll send them to Andy later on. Andy thank you, why don't you head on to your next appointment there, I'm going to close for 30 seconds folks just with a little bit of other housekeeping here. So you got this link here, and Andy you can take off, I don't want to hold you. Bye everybody, thank you. Okay, you've got the link here if you want to buy precious metals and Andy and the
1:00:06 team there are the best ones to help you. If you want to get some help from a personal financial advisor both about things like how much precious metals should I own, what form should I own them in, what makes sense for my portfolio given all my other life needs, some of the questions here during the chat was well okay Adam, you said that things were getting pretty rich back at the beginning of the year.
1:00:28 You said hedge. How do I hedge my precious metals positions? I've talked about that a little bit, but it's better to just talk about that with a financial advisor who's got a lot of experience doing that and can custom tailor their answers to your situation. So if you haven't yet, folks, go fill out the very short form at thoughtfulmoney.com
1:00:45 and have a conversation with one of our endorsed financial advisors. There's no cost, there's no commitment. It's just a service they offer to be as helpful to as many people as possible. Again, as sort of the summer starting and precious metal prices are low, it's a really good opportunity to, A, just get an overall portfolio review, but also to set yourself up as best as possible for what's going to lie ahead.
1:01:12 And with that, folks, I hope you continue to like these regular check-ins with Andy. We'll keep doing them for as long as you guys want us to. Can't thank you enough. Love all the engagement, love all the questions, love all the feedback. And we will see you guys here next time with Andy and just coming up in the next couple days we've got interviews with folks like Louis Gave, Kevin Muir, got Jan van Eck coming up pretty soon. We've got Danielle DiMartino Booth, Darius Dale, Stephanie Pomboy,
1:01:51 George Gammon, Eric Jackson will be talking about SpaceX. Nick Gerli wanted to come back on. He's got a lot of updates in the housing market. Fred Hickey, high tech strategist is coming on again. We're going to have the guys from Oxbow back on and then we're going to have Julia Lemke back on. And you may remember we did a personal finance retirement planning session with her that was really well received.
1:02:08 So anyways, folks, we just got a great gauntlet lined up here. And with that being said, I will let you guys go. And thank you all so much for watching.