In short: Theme proxy (no ETF named this time). "I'm probably not as sanguine on AI specific. I am as sanguine on the buildout. I prefer to play it via electrical infrastructure equities" — because US electrical generation "basically didn't move" from 2004 to 2024 while China's went from 30% of ours to two and a half times. ~15% of the allocation.
PAVE holds US companies that build and supply infrastructure; Gromen has named it before as a guide to the theme he wants — electrical infrastructure. He did not name the ETF in this conversation, but he did name the theme and gave it about 15% of the book.
The reasoning: the US barely added electricity generation for twenty years (2004–2024), while China grew from about a third of US capacity to two and a half times it. AI data centers and reshored factories now need that power. Gromen is enthusiastic about the build-out but wary of the AI stocks themselves, so he prefers the "picks and shovels" — the companies that make and install the grid equipment, which get paid whether or not any single AI company wins.
1:23:24— Okay. And you're taking into my next question, which is great, but real quick, Luke, are you as sanguine about AI sort of in general, all things taken into account as Darius? — I'm probably not as sanguine on AI specific. I am as sanguine on the buildout. I prefer to play it via electrical infrastructure equities.
In short: His other core buy alongside gold. US electricity generation was flat from 2004 to 2024 — "the US didn't really grow on a real basis for 20 years" — and AI plus reshoring are now reversing it ("if you have factories, you need grid"). Use the ETF's holdings as the guide to the companies he means; recommended for clients for years, no financial relationship.
PAVE is a basket of US infrastructure and industrial stocks. The thesis is a physical bottleneck with a startling statistic behind it: the United States generated about the same amount of electricity in 2024 as it did in 2004. Since power use and real economic growth move together, Gromen's inference is blunt — the last twenty years of "growth" was mostly inflation, and the country didn't really grow in real terms.
Now that has to reverse, first for AI data centres and then for reshoring — "if you have factories, you need grid." The companies that build, wire and equip that build-out are, in his words, "the people selling picks and shovels to the mining boom." He doesn't name individual stocks; he says look at what PAVE holds to see the kind of company he means. He notes he has no financial relationship with the fund and has recommended it to clients for years.
48:51And now we're reversing that. And it's AI-related initially, but it's reshoring. If you have factories, you need grid. And so, for me, I think ETFs like the PAVE P A V E, GRID G R I D, if you look at those ETFs, if you look at the companies in those ETFs, and I have no financial relationship with either of them.
In short: Still really likes US electrical-infrastructure equities — power bottlenecks after 20 years of near-zero added capacity. Named PAVE as a component guide ("look at the components… that'll give you an idea of the companies I'm talking about"), alongside his private metal-fabricator PE deal seeing 3–5 yr order backlogs.
PAVE is a basket of US infrastructure and industrial stocks. Gromen's point is a physical bottleneck: the US has barely added electrical capacity in 20 years, and now AI data centers, reshoring and electrification all need power at once. The companies that make and install the guts of the grid have years of backlog — one of his own biggest positions is a private company that bends and fabricates the metal that goes into this infrastructure, and it's seeing "open field running" for years. He doesn't name individual public stocks; he says look at what PAVE holds to see the kind of companies he means.
35:55So I think electrical infrastructure equities are in a really good place. Things like the PAVE ETF, the GRID ETF. If you look at the components of those things, that'll give you some idea of the types of companies I'm talking about. Look, I think Japanese equities, they've done really well, within that though the industrials haven't done as well as some of the headline stuff around AI.
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Verbatim excerpts from the public transcripts (auto-pulled at each mention's timestamp, lightly cleaned). Timestamps link into the video; "source page" opens that commentator's full analysis at this row. Click a mention's header line to expand it (one open at a time). For personal study — not investment advice.